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: F1 >> Leaked info to spell end of Renault in F1?


valerossi
11-23-2007, 11:39 AM
Leaked info to spell end of Renault in F1? (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/157504-0/leaked_info_to_spell_end_of_renault_in_f1.html)

Friday, 23rd November 2007

Third team implicated in F1's 2007 spy row saga rocked by latest revelations ahead of FIA hearing.

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Renault's Formula 1 team has been dealt a hammer blow in the latest revelation in the sport's ongoing spy row, with leaked legal documents painting a bleak picture for the French squad ahead of its pivotal World Motor Sport Council hearing early next month - the outcome of which is likely to determine its future in the top flight.

Renault was first named as being implicated in the espionage saga a fortnight ago. It will consequently appear before the FIA in Monaco on 6 December to answer a charge of being in unauthorised possession of documents and confidential information belonging to McLaren. It is a similar offence to that of which McLaren was found guilty during the summer, when the Woking concern was proved to have illegally received 780 pages of secret Ferrari data – and for which the team received a $100 million fine, disqualification from the 2007 constructors' world championship and a high degree of scrutiny over its 2008 model.

According to British daily newspaper The Times, the latest assertions – allegedly leaked to PA Sport from McLaren's submission to the world council in a bid to ramp up the pressure on Renault – imply the Enstone-based outfit benefited significantly from the aforementioned data, which includes, the FIA has confirmed, the layout and critical dimensions of McLaren's F1 car, fuelling system, gear assembly, oil cooling system, hydraulic control system and a novel suspension component used by the 2006 and 2007 machines.

“It is clear that McLaren's confidential design information was knowingly, deliberately and widely disseminated and discussed within the Renault F1 design and engineering team,” read a statement from McLaren's solicitors, Baker McKenzie, “thereby providing them with a clear benefit and unfair advantage.”

What's more, Baker McKenzie have accused Renault of adopting a ‘cavalier attitude' during the continuing investigation, and criticised a number of the Régie's written replies as being ‘incomplete', ‘misleading' or ‘incorrect'.

The legal dossier contains a collection of damning evidence, including 18 witness statements in which Renault F1 employees – some of them senior engineering chiefs and heads of department dubbed by McLaren the ‘Renault Seven', and among them chief designer Tim Densham and the heads of research and development, mechanical design, transmission design and vehicle performance – admit to having viewed confidential technical information belonging to McLaren on eleven of Renault's computers.

It is also stated that in March, 2006, 33 files of confidential technical information belonging to McLaren – containing no fewer than 780 individual drawings outlining the complete technical blueprint of the 2006 and 2007 McLaren F1 cars – were copied onto eleven floppy disks, which were subsequently loaded on to Renault's F1 computer system the following September.

Renault has always insisted it has complied entirely with both the FIA and McLaren over the matter, and even went so far as to invite McLaren's independent experts to assess its computer systems and inspect the cars and design records, in an effort to prove there had been no influence on the design of Renault's F1 machines.

The team claims the matter first came to light when it was discovered that Phil Mackereth, an engineer who joined Renault from McLaren in September 2006, had taken with him information belonging to the latter contained on floppy disks. Following a formal internal investigation, Mackereth was suspended by Renault and the disks returned to McLaren.

Mackereth's argument that he had retained the information for ‘sentimental reasons' was dismissed by McLaren's lawyers as ‘absurd', and his statements branded ‘inconsistent'.

Renault has also sought to downplay the significance of the drawings, claiming they covered only four ‘basic systems', at least one of which was obsolete. Moreover, the team added none of the information concerned was transferred onto its cars, and that it was wiped from the team's computers as soon as it was uncovered.

Renault has refused to comment further until after the FIA hearing. Should it be found guilty, however, the punishment could mirror that of McLaren's, which would prove extremely costly to its 2008 chances and – some believe – may drive the team to withdraw from F1 altogether.

:whiteflag

Junior
11-23-2007, 12:48 PM
$100m, pay up bitches.

so that's 2 manufacturers signed up for the rival title then....

valerossi
11-23-2007, 08:52 PM
$100m, pay up bitches.

so that's 2 manufacturers signed up for the rival title then....

I'm expecting them to pay no less than $100m also...

Sounds like the FIA executives will have a quite huge bonus this year... :crash

Junior
11-24-2007, 08:06 AM
I'm expecting them to pay no less than $100m also...

Sounds like the FIA executives will have a quite huge bonus this year... :crash

and no race series next year.

valerossi
11-24-2007, 08:45 AM
and no race series next year.

Nah... F1 will always be there, there are still quite a large group of people that has too much money and not sure what to do with it... :crash

Junior
11-24-2007, 04:44 PM
Nah... F1 will always be there, there are still quite a large group of people that has too much money and not sure what to do with it... :crash

ok well then soon there'll be a rival series, with fewer rules and less drama.

valerossi
11-25-2007, 01:32 AM
ok well then soon there'll be a rival series, with fewer rules and less drama.

Didn't they tried to do that with A1GP? The series doesn't seem to be that popular... :dunno

Junior
11-25-2007, 06:09 AM
honestly, I dunno, I wasn't following at the time. But if Renault and McLaren quit F1 and went to A1GP, you can bet it'd bring some attention in.

ffwf
11-26-2007, 06:19 AM
Thing is that A1GP is a nations series and not a constructors series:

The A1GP formula provides for one car to be delivered to each team. Each such car is mechanically identical, built with many technical restrictions designed to limit performance, reduce running costs, and prevent any one or number of teams gaining an advantage through better equipment. This regulation provides a level playing field in which it is hoped driver skill and team effort becomes the primary factor for success.

Specifically, the cars have a 600 kg monocoque chassis designed by Lola and model-370/660R13 slick tires from Cooper. Zytek provide a performance-limited 3.4 litre V8 engine, however its performance limitation can be overcome by the driver pressing a button on their steering wheel. This so-called boost button or overtake button increases the engine output, revs and horsepower while the accelerator remains depressed, increasing speed and facilitating easier overtaking. The overtake button may only be used a limited number of times in each race, which is pre-programmed beforehand and identical for each car.

The A1GP organisers have announced a six year deal with Ferrari to design & manufacture the next generation of A1GP car, from 1st January 2008 until 14th of March 2014. As yet details of the car are not known other than it will be a V8 engine producing power in the region of 550BHP. While the engine will be solely created by Ferrari, the chassis will be built by a third party Italian company with design input from Ferrari. All teams will be required to carry "Powered by Ferrari" insignia on their cars & merchandise. The official safety vehicle has already changed to be a Ferrari 599 GTB.

Junior
11-26-2007, 09:14 AM
great, another Ferrari run series, just what we need.
:headdesk

So rival series it is then.

ffwf
11-26-2007, 03:34 PM
that wasn't the point I was trying to make, if you read that quote it said
The A1GP formula provides for one car to be delivered to each team. Each such car is mechanically identical, built with many technical restrictions designed to limit performance, reduce running costs, and prevent any one or number of teams gaining an advantage through better equipment. This regulation provides a level playing field in which it is hoped driver skill and team effort becomes the primary factor for success.

meaning that they all run the same car/equipment.

tilbury007
11-29-2007, 01:23 AM
Bernie Ecclestone has claimed spying will always be a part of Formula 1, as the latest espionage scandal to rock the sport in 2007 gets set to play out before the World Motor (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/157677-0/ecclestone_espionage_in_f1_nothing_new.html#) Sport Council next week.

Just eight days away from Renault's (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/157677-0/ecclestone_espionage_in_f1_nothing_new.html#) appearance before the FIAin Paris, charged with possessing confidential information belonging to a rival team in much the same way as McLaren
was charged – and heavily punished – back in September, the sport's (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/157677-0/ecclestone_espionage_in_f1_nothing_new.html#) supremo insisted trying to prevent the transfer of private data from one squad to another was little more than a pipe dream.

“There has always been spying ever since I have been in Formula 1 (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/157677-0/ecclestone_espionage_in_f1_nothing_new.html#),” Ecclestone said in an interview with German magazine Auto Motor und Sport, published in English on the official Formula 1website. “It is a little bit more sophisticated than it was. In the old days, one guy would employ somebody and they would take the information he brings with him.

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“In a way, it is still happening today. Red Bullemployed Adrian Newey. Why did they do that? They took him on-board because he's got years of information about what to do and what not [to do]. I do not imagine he came with any drawings, but he came with all his knowledge in his head. We cannot stop that.

“If I am running a private hospital, I would engage the best surgeons I could find. If I hear about a guy who had done 30 heart transplants successfully somewhere else, then I am going to employ him because he has proven he can do it. You haven't bought anything except knowledge. I cannot tell you to forget everything you have done.”

What's more, the 77-year-old suggested the spying row should not be a matter for the sport's governing body to deal with, but rather one for the police, and indeed argued the ‘Spygate' saga could have been resolved with far less drama – and, more crucially still, without doing so much damage to the sport's reputation.

tilbury007
11-29-2007, 01:25 AM
“They [the FIA] should keep out of it,” Ecclestone urged. “I did tell [ McLarenteam principal] Ron Dennis, when the whole mess started, to report to the police that there was a case of theft. Tell them there is an employee in the house who is receiving or purchasing stolen property.

“When the information became available to Ron Dennis that something was going on in his company, he should have called [ FerrariCEO Jean] Todt and said ‘Listen Jean, something funny is going on, let's get together'.

“They would have met, both would have informed the police, who then would have investigated the matter and we would have known what really happened. If it was dealt in that way, we would not have had the problems we faced this year. It should be a matter for the police and the court. They have much better tools (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/157677-1/ecclestone_espionage_in_f1_nothing_new.html#) to find out the truth.

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“I talk often about the good old days, and probably they weren't good old days, but at least we used to sort these problems out by ourselves. Nowadays every team has got five lawyers, three doctors, two masseurs, a psychologist, and all of them want to work, so if there is the chance to cause trouble they do cause trouble.

“Without all these people, the teams would not need to do all this and we would have solved the problems internally.”

McLaren received an unprecedented penalty of a $100,000 USD fine and disqualification from the 2007 constructors' world championship back in the summer, for having been caught in possession of secret Ferrari (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/157677-1/ecclestone_espionage_in_f1_nothing_new.html#) information. Ecclestone would not be drawn on whether he thought – if found guilty – Renaultmay face a similar punishment, one that many believe could drive (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/157677-1/ecclestone_espionage_in_f1_nothing_new.html#) the Régie to withdraw from F1
altogether.

“I do not know the extent of what they have done and what they have not done,” he added. “I think the difference between them and McLaren is that McLaren were getting information over a person, rather than somebody having stolen a lot of drawings in one go.”